If you’re looking for hard data as opposed to ethics, logic, politics, and philosophy, read this instead or as well: http://rense.com/general76/mths.htm
“In laboratory settings, there’s no evident difference between liberals and conservatives in their propensity to believe what they want, evidence be damned. In one experiment, Yale law professor Dan Kahan showed you could get liberals to start doubting global warming (and conservatives to begin accepting it) by making clear that any solution would require geoengineering. In another he showed that both liberals and conservatives were more likely to rate someone an expert on climate change if they agreed with their conclusions. In a third, he showed liberals were about as resistant to evidence showing concealed carry laws are safe as conservatives were to evidence showing climate change is dangerous.” ~Ezra Klein
The left, whom I side with on 95% of issues, needs to quit playing into the right’s hands and leave guns alone regardless of their personal opinion unless they wish to admit they are obsessed with them to a self destructive degree. Why?
Setting aside all the logical and ethical reasons to do so, of which there are many, there is the strategic reason that when ignored leads to party impotence. By simply vowing to stay out of gun policy, either for or against, the left could secure enough one issue voters to secure a permanent majority in every nationally relevant context.
Now really, if the price of declawing gun owners (and be honest, that’s the objective) is the failure of all your other policy objectives, and you knowingly pay it, who is really the more gun obsessed?
Update: A message to progressive individuals and organizations from which I have been forced to unsubscribe.
Why did I unsubscribe from your progressive email list suddenly? Because you forced me to. I am steadily being forced to the right by this one issue which you refuse to process rationally, instead relying on a partisan checklist of prefabricated opinions designed to keep the system deadlocked for all eternity.
Any progressive that jumps on the anti-gun band wagon has proven their disinterest in logic and the constitution and has therefor become a mindless part of the system and problem.
Gun prohibition is as insane as Alcohol prohibition and Drug prohibition. Yes we regulate alcohol, but not remotely to the degree we regulate guns, and there is no good reason for it because a rag and a lighter turn booze into a horrifying weapon.
Incrementalist efforts to achieve gun prohibition under the guise of regulation, because they can’t be bothered to attack the 2nd amendment openly cannot be tolerated. Opposition to the 2nd pursued in this way is as is as underhanded as anything the right wing does to achieve its goals. It’s easily as bad as voter disenfranchisement under the guise of fraud protection for example. It’s simply another attempt to undermine any potential opposition to our continued enslavement to billionaires and their millionaire congressional minions.
The 2nd Amendment
“In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”
~James Madison
The right to bear arms is not for defense or hunting, it’s to equip a revolt if needed, that’s why we’re allowed to field a militia as well. A militia with muskets was the equivalent of a battalion complete with strike craft, rocket artillery, and stinger missiles, in those days.
The whole point was to allow the existence of a force which could rival the army, not be the army.
It’s shockingly absurd to assert that the 2nd was somehow intended to protect the rights of the military, and that somehow the needs of the 2nd are met now by the military. To believe that is to believe that the framers of the Constitution didn’t have command of the English language or logic.
Arms escalation is an issue, and we were overtly warned on national television by the president of the United States of the dangers of the military industrial complex. This is one of them.
“My great objection to this government is, that it does not leave us the means of defending our rights or of waging war against tyrants.”
~Patrick Henry
The founding fathers did however make one critical error. They should have simply made, and explicitly stated that, it is our right to prepare for an armed revolt, as that was clearly the intent. Context makes it obvious if you take the time to look.
The whole point of the document was to establish a government that could be modified as the people saw fit, and tossed out entirely if that failed. But how could the people toss out a corrupt government if it was tactically powerless? It can’t, which is why we have the 2nd amendment. It was to create a government that was the slave of the people.
Both sides of the popular gun “debate” simply refuse to read the relevant documents. Perhaps that’s because both parties are owned by the same handful of people. (http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html)
The purpose of the second amendment is to ensure that the government be barred from annihilating the population’s ability to prepare for and execute an armed rebellion.
The ‘well regulated militia’ line is the framers being specific about how they expected such a rebellion to come about if required. I.E. The government goes bad, the populace wants a new one, and forms an armed militia (or in today’s popular parlance a “terrorist organization”) to depose it. The concept of diffuse, headless, guerrilla warfare simply didn’t occur to them. They expected us to be able to organize. They did not anticipate the power of mass media manipulation and consent manufacturing. In short, wise as they were they couldn’t entirely envision the deep future.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (emphasis mine)
It does not say the right of “the army”, (which it does mention explicitly elsewhere), it says the people. Gun control advocates when forced to comment at all seem to think the purpose of regulated militia in the context of the second is meant to fulfill a need now filled by the standing army. This is obviously false.
Firstly, as mentioned, the document makes overt reference to the army and the navy elsewhere in the document. The framers didn’t need a metaphor for the army, they knew the word and used it.
Secondly, think how absurd it would be to list a right of the army among a list of rights obviously meant for the people.
“There is no fettering of authority.” ~William Shakespeare
Think about what that implies. As if the ‘true/modern’ wording of the second should be something like this: “A well regulated army being necessary to the security of the state, the right of the soldiers to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Obviously that was not the intent of the amendment. The Constitution is not an elaboration of government rights, it is a limitation of them. It is an elaboration of the people’s rights.
The whole assumption of the document is that left alone, government will seize all rights, which is what tyranny is. It doesn’t need a constitution for protection, the people do. If the point was to safeguard the army the question becomes safeguard it from what?
What government has ever fielded an army without weapons? Is an army even an army if it is disarmed? The whole notion that the military fulfills the intent of the militia wording is mind numbing ignorance and cognitive dissonance, at best. Normally I like to expose insanity of that sort with an exaggeration of some kind but I can’t think of one. The claim that “well regulated militia” == “military” is the very apex of nonsense.
But getting back to reality, it does not say security of the state but security of a free state. That taken with the fact that a militia with muskets was the state of the art in military technology of the day, the equivalent of tank divisions and gunships, it becomes crystal clear that the intent of the second is to safeguard the people, as separate from the government and the military, against a possibly corrupt future government and military, more so than any external foreign threat. Though enabling the people to defend themselves in the event of invasion, should the military be logistically barred, or too incompetent to do so at the time, was also a consideration.
This was all fresh in the minds of the framers given that they had just recently been a citizen militia perpetrating an armed rebellion against a corrupt government’s army. Note also that the wording says keep and bear arms. This means that simply allowing us to have them is insufficient, we must also be allowed to carry them. 90% of gun law (along with 99.999% of proposed additional gun law) is absolutely unconstitutional given these facts.
Now, an argument can be made that muskets aren’t readily concealed so the intent may not cover concealed carry, but it absolutely does cover open personal carry, or concealed carry within a vehicle, considering hiding a musket in a carriage or cart is absolutely possible and yet they didn’t feel the need to stipulate visibility. Think about it, when one bears their teeth, the point is to make them visible.
This is further defended by the word “infringe” as opposed to something like “prohibit.” Clearly the spirit of the statement is meant to prohibit regulation generally as well as an outright ban, being perfectly aware as they were of the incrementalist approach. This is supported by the context of the time, since the rebellion itself was begun not by overt decree but by stealthy stacking of oppressive regulation and taxation. Incrementalism caused the American revolution.
“[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. . .“
~George Mason
Regulation is often used to produce the effect of a given sort of law without the actual intent being declared. Indeed one could argue that this is regulation’s primary use. Waiting periods and background checks and application fees add up to prohibitions and infringements without coming out and saying what they are. There is clearly an element in American politics that, openly or not seeks to slowly regulate firearms into effective illegality because the legitimate course of action with this intent would be politically impossible, a repeal of the second amendment.
Again, the framers were absolutely speaking about, and aware of, the potential to tax and regulate firearms to the point of an effective ban, which is why they used the word infringe. All gun regulation is unconstitutional.
The argument that regulation is needed to prevent crime is absurd. Crime is crime, regardless of the tools. Regulate the act, not the tool. (Which I why murder by hammer is illegal and yet hammers are legal.)
Attempting to deny criminals the tools to commit crime is a fool’s errand since fire, rocks, and fists can get the job done. Let alone the awesome power of biology, chemistry, and basic physics. The need to make a law that you can’t sell a gun to a crazy person is proof that there is a problem with health care, not gun law. A person crazy enough to be dangerous with a firearm shouldn’t be in a position to get hold of rocks or matches either. The sane solution is not rock and match law, yet that’s what we’ve allowed to occur.
Hitting someone with a rock should be illegal, not carrying a rock. Setting fire to someone’s house should be illegal, not owning matches and gasoline. Shooting people or robbing them with guns should be illegal, not owning them or carrying them.
Debates about crime reduction or hunting are completely beside the point.
Sidenote:
It occurred to me the other day why it is that gun control was chosen (by the 1%, those who own and orchestrate partisanship as a tool of statecraft) as the one and only issue the “progressive” side is to decide on dogmatically or ideologically as opposed to rationally.
The real reason democrats are to mouth foam in the face of facts when it comes to gun control and no other issue, is because while the 2nd serves the 99% as a last resort, opposition to it serves the 1% as a last resort as well.
Many people talk about what would happen if the tables tipped in their favor to the point of crushing tyranny resulting in armed revolt. (http://underlore.com/if-not-now-when/) But it occurred to me that no one really thinks about the other side of that coin. Further, no one thinks about the 1% thinking about that, and so on. Well, rest assured they have, and this seemingly irrational position on gun control taken by the “progressive” party strongly implies it.
You see I always assumed this mixing and matching of smart positions was entirely about making sure no party is ever allowed to really win, a tool to keep us bickering over trivialities while they train our children to endure and internalize the ethics of slavery, and it is that, but there is another bonus.
Opposition to gun ownership is their last resort just as ownership of guns is ours. Think about a total progressive victory. Banks regulated, healthcare offered, the playing field leveled, etc. For them, that is the equivalent of tyranny, that is the worst case endgame scenario. But, having tricked the progressives into adopting gun control as an immutable tenet, the resulting society would be a disarmed one, ripe for recapture or counter revolution.
A true critical thinker doesn’t just examine his enemies, but himself as well. If you oppose gun ownership and the 1%, ask yourself why the facts don’t matter to you, and be sure you know who gave you your opinion and why.
Ok, so lets say I agree, but we couldn’t ever beat the army right?
(From here: https://plus.google.com/+BrandonSergent/posts/UgnM1cvMZ8b)
“The notion of taking on a military that is unchallenged in the world is utterly absurd.”
Someone has been watching too much TV.
The statement made however radically misunderstands both the nature of American warfare and the kind of war the 2nd amendment anticipates.
A war of the military vs its citizenry would not be the same class of conflict as a war against foreign powers. Most clearly because that citizenry provides the material support that military needs to run.
Beans, bullets, and bandages. Who do you think supplies those for our military?
It would instantly be a guerrilla war also, and half of the military may well switch sides, many waiting to do so at critical moments.
Basically, defeating the US military for the US citizens would be an inside job and we could simply outlast them.
A general strike is implied in such a scenario and given the amount of funding, which translates obviously to the amount of domestic labor the American military relies on, that alone would be devastating.
Make no mistake the 2nd is doing its job.
I’ll be generous and say every last person in uniform is unified, that’s 2,927,754 military personnel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel
According to http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828
The American civilian populace is armed to the tune of 9 out of 10.
And that’s completely ignoring what we make and hold for government use, and what’s sitting on pawn shop and gun shop shelves all over the country. Every walmart in the south is an armory.
Population: 311,591,917 (2011) United States Census Bureau
That’s 280,432,725 people with a gun each 2,927,754.
That’s just about 99 to 1.
Frankly, we could take them even it they fuel air bombed the major cities, in advance. And they know it.
Update: 2016-06-13 0430 PM Orlando
Here we go again.
After months of the DNC/MSM (and MIC) positioning for a corporate coup via election fraud, we get one disturbingly well timed terrorist attack that checks all the hot button social boxes, LGBT, Muslim, guns, terrorism… and we predictably start begging to be disarmed like the trusting emotional irrational sheep we apparently are on the whole.
AGAIN. Do you people not recall how the war on terror started? Where the patriot act came from? Why it’s a bad thing in the first place?
Democracy is a sham, not just because stolen elections, but because you people are so easily manipulated into begging for totalitarianism.
Look at what you’re screaming.
“Please declaw us! Please child proof our lives! Please make us totally powerless to rebel! Please take away our rights in the name of security! Please distract us! Please rule us with fear! Please put us totally at the mercy of people who we know for a fact are corrupt sadistic murders with no mental limits on how far they’ll go for power and wealth!”
Do you people really want your front door to be like a TSA checkpoint? Do you really want to turn the whole country into an airport? Because that’s what it takes to make everyone “safe” this way. That’s where a gun-war executed like the drug war will take us.
Do you honestly think making a gun or a bomb is more complicated than making meth? By definition no since you can accidentally make a bomb while making meth. A gun is an order of magnitude simpler, even before 3d printers and CNC machines.
Begging for a new drug war over guns is suicidally stupid.
Freedom comes with risk.
Are all the other issues you rant about so trivial that you can forget them because of a single emotional shock?
Banning real effective guns would put us totally at the mercy of cops that kill blacks at will, a military that bombs hospitals by “accident,” a government that imprisons us in world-record numbers, and a string of presidents and elected officials that assassinate us by drone and trample all our constitutional rights. (Not just the one you are begging to have trampled.)
Are you insane?
Did you people just suddenly forget about the drug war? Did you not notice that murder is already illegal? Do you scream for the banning of cars or booze to cure drunk driving?
Do you really say we should ban anything that makes killing possible? Do you have any idea how surrounded by weapons you are?
Have you ever heard of an ied? What do you think will come after guns even if you could magic them away? The most lethal school killing was not a shooting, it was a bombing and it happened in 1927.
Mass murder isn’t new. And it isn’t caused by anything recent.
When did you stop caring about the constitution? When did you start cherry picking which of our rights really matter like the republicans?
Any liberal that’s against guns needs to shut up about:
- Cops: Because they are now your only line of defense.
- Prison: Because a new ban war means more prisons.
- Militarized police: Because taking the guns away means civil war.
- Police brutality: They’ll need lethal force to declaw America, and a lot of it.
- Constitutional rights: Because you’ve made it clear you don’t care about the constitution.
- The drug war: Because you want a new one that’s even worse.
Wake up. Gun law only protects the rich from us. They own the cops and the military. They don’t need guns, they have soldiers. This isn’t about crime and hunting. This is about future and present tyranny.
Think like a grown up from the real world for once.
The Filibuster 2016-06-16
And so in the wake of the tragedy that was preventable, in a thousand ways other than stripping us of a constitutional right and tyranny backstop, we now have the so called “progressives” in congress banding together to do just that. Seemingly fighting the good fight that they are unwilling to fight on any other front that matters.
Leftists are so stupid for cheering for this. Do they not ask themselves why this issue? Why now? They are neoliberals! HRC is under investigation and her actual hacked emails are being leaked!
You idiots. What they are doing serves their 1% masters. The rich don’t need the 2nd amendment! The rich are always served by tyranny.
Indeed the rich are the source of tyranny! Remember income inequality? Campaign finance reform? Climate change fueled by fossil? Who is at the root of those issues you’ve forgotten in your mad egotistical dash to virtue signal by way of stripping the rights from others?
So this is all it takes. Allow or create a problem, and then pitch once again trading freedom for the illusion of security. Gun prohibitionists are now falling into the same emotional trap as those itching to get “tough on crime.” And just like that debate, the real issue isn’t solved by more oppression, and more laws.
You can’t fix crime with prisons, prohibition, and police. Have you fools forgotten the drug war? Is stricter drug law the solution? Do you really want your entire life to be like a TSA checkpoint?
It seems you do. And via the arbitrary and corrupt terrorist watch list no less. Idiots. Cowards. Infants. Hypocrites.
Related links:
Is it a “Lie” That More People Carrying Guns Can Lead to Less Crime?
In summation, even to Lott’s critics, the best conclusion is not that he’s a clownish fraud and liar, but that the matter of gun carrying and crime is incredibly complicated and the best evidence regarding the effect of more people carrying guns on crime is still ambiguous, not that Lott’s conclusion is the opposite of the truth.
The overarching fact remains: many more guns in the country and more states with the legal right to carry them with fewer regulation coinciding with an enormous decrease in gun crime.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/second-amendment-came-from-articles-of-confederati/
http://www.gunpolicy.org/
http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/41055625177/america-is-now-flirting-with-the-dark-side-of-history
http://www.cracked.com/article_20396_5-mind-blowing-facts-nobody-told-you-about-guns.html