Death is the enemy. Do you agree? I’ll bet you don’t. As of this writing the people likely to read my work don’t agree. They.. You.. see death as something other than an enemy. Some of you see it as the road to your god and heaven, others see it as a way to escape from one pain or many, still others see death as just a part of life and some of you don’t even think about it at all.
But I’m here to tell you death is the fucking enemy. Death is wrong. Death can be fought and defeated. Death is pointless. Death is not your friend. We must bring about the death of death itself.
Before death can be fought its horror must be apparent. Death’s most powerful weapon is its ability to convince people that it is not the enemy. People lose their only daughter in a violent car crash and they blame the car, and they invent an after life or they start a foundation in her name and death gets a pass.
But in the end death is the problem. Our lives are defined by death in the sense that most of our actions stem from the delay of it’s approach. But that is only true because we come from animals. Animals that have no purposes beyond reproducing. A system of mixing and remixing DNA for the sake and being able to continue mixing and remixing DNA. That is no longer good enough.
Evolution itself has evolved and the door is open for each individual to choose to reproduce in whatever way they like or not, to live forever or not, to finally dispatch death.
I know this is painful to read for those of you who have lost someone or are losing someone. No one likes the thought of being partly responsible for future and present deaths. It’s much better to give up, to consider the matter unavoidable, to hide behind mythology and platitude. To cry yourself out and move on. But our powers are growing and so too does our ethical responsibility.
This does not mean to the state or the god but to all humanity.
It is time to fight. And the first step is failing to surrender.
I chose not to die.
I plan not to die.
My existence matters.
I will not live on through a legacy or though the memory of others or through great deeds or through metaphor or the pleasing of a deity or the cycle of souls and lives.
I will live through action, force of will, technology and study, literally till the end of my universe. I believe this is possible, I know it. And I will do everything I can to make it happen for me and everyone else who wants it with every fiber of my being.
That is my duty to myself my parents my friends and also every life form under my rule.
It is my personal responsibility to see to it that pain is ended, that death is ended that the chains be broken, that life itself be preserved and improved, that sentience be respected, that freedom be preserved, and that I improve myself without fear of losing who I am or losing control of my fate.
The cartoon said it best. Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you.
Death is an opponent we can not truly defeat as we are, though we may indeed wound the hell out of it even now if we tried as a group. But I know better. We will not. I am not here to convince you and start a movement.
You’ve heard the logic before, you can not act. It is outside your nature. I understand and I sympathize.
No, we must become something else, as individuals and as a species. And this change will be snuck upon the most of us. It will be gradual for some, instantaneous for others. It will come from varied directions, from the cell up or machine in. Indeed there may be other paths no living human may be capable of imagining.
If there is something after death, if there are souls on the other side of the veil we can know one of two things. Either they are incapable of helping us, or they are unwilling. That either makes them powerless or compassionless.
If they look and see death as a good thing and they see pain as purposeful, they are not human. They are not our friends and family anymore, and so me must work to preserve and defend our friends and family that stand among us now and see that they stand among us for as long as they wish.
We must see if we can that they are not seduced by lies, but we must temper this with a respect for their authority over themselves.
Pain and death are our enemies. Mortal enemies. Can there be a better term for such a thing?
They must be fought. And they will be. Unto their total annihilation.
Wow, I never really thought of it like this before. I really believe there is something other than what is going on in the here and now. But, the pain thing ~ I just have to say that I absoletely agree with this stand. To the fucking end ~ to their annililation! Yes.
Wow, I never really thought of it like this before. I really believe there is something other than what is going on in the here and now. But, the pain thing ~ I just have to say that I absoletely agree with this stand. To the fucking end ~ to their annililation! Yes.
I agree that death itself is pointless. Mankind has too much potential. But if death was defeated, new life would be impossible. Earth cannot sustain it. As well as the personal aspect of it all; you are passionate about destroying death and seek to stay here forever. I wish to see the world as long as it may last as well. Even though I am still incredibly young, fear of not experiencing it all and losing the knowledge and advances that will happen doubtlessly following my undeniable mortality and its first and final move, hangs over me. My curiosity cannot bear to not be here as an individual throughout time to live and to learn as much as I can. Yet the fact remains. Life and death are a cycle. I do not pretend to know the meaning of life, nor do I challenge the grasp of modern science and that scientists have a right to attempt to beat nature and it’s ‘horrors’. If all the humans on this earth at this very moment were left immortal, yet still reproductive, how would any of us live? The possibilities are endless but I cannot help but wonder if it would be worth it. Would creativity still flourish and would the pursuit of knowledge still live on? Or perhaps, would all motivation die out? Mankind has been influenced by the cycle in our lives for as long as we have existed. Art, science, philosophy, politics, religion, reproduction, etc. It is all influenced by death looming shadow. We are given a time frame to live our lives and do something with it, but immortality would uproot that. Laziness could prevail and mankind could fall into limbo; frozen in time because we have all the time in the world. Of course this is all theoretical yet as with any interesting idea, there will be denials and disbelief. For the sake of simple mental stimulation, answer me. I am fascinated by what you have laid out. Several more questions if you do not mind: Do you mean immortality for the entire world or a select few? (I agree with this idea as long as it would be held in the grasps of only the most responsible, selfless people.) Are you religious or are you fully an atheist without any thoughts of an afterlife? (This is to satisfy my curiosity.) And finally, why do you speak of ‘every one under my rule’ and this being your responsibility? (Please take no offense at this part, it is out of curiosity merely.)
I agree that death itself is pointless. Mankind has too much potential. But if death was defeated, new life would be impossible. Earth cannot sustain it. As well as the personal aspect of it all; you are passionate about destroying death and seek to stay here forever. I wish to see the world as long as it may last as well. Even though I am still incredibly young, fear of not experiencing it all and losing the knowledge and advances that will happen doubtlessly following my undeniable mortality and its first and final move, hangs over me. My curiosity cannot bear to not be here as an individual throughout time to live and to learn as much as I can. Yet the fact remains. Life and death are a cycle. I do not pretend to know the meaning of life, nor do I challenge the grasp of modern science and that scientists have a right to attempt to beat nature and it’s ‘horrors’. If all the humans on this earth at this very moment were left immortal, yet still reproductive, how would any of us live? The possibilities are endless but I cannot help but wonder if it would be worth it. Would creativity still flourish and would the pursuit of knowledge still live on? Or perhaps, would all motivation die out? Mankind has been influenced by the cycle in our lives for as long as we have existed. Art, science, philosophy, politics, religion, reproduction, etc. It is all influenced by death looming shadow. We are given a time frame to live our lives and do something with it, but immortality would uproot that. Laziness could prevail and mankind could fall into limbo; frozen in time because we have all the time in the world. Of course this is all theoretical yet as with any interesting idea, there will be denials and disbelief. For the sake of simple mental stimulation, answer me. I am fascinated by what you have laid out. Several more questions if you do not mind: Do you mean immortality for the entire world or a select few? (I agree with this idea as long as it would be held in the grasps of only the most responsible, selfless people.) Are you religious or are you fully an atheist without any thoughts of an afterlife? (This is to satisfy my curiosity.) And finally, why do you speak of ‘every one under my rule’ and this being your responsibility? (Please take no offense at this part, it is out of curiosity merely.)
I agree of course that earth could not sustain itself in the face of an exponentially growing population of parasites.
But I don’t think it would have to. For one, assuming death was defeated and the option to stay as long as one desired was around, the effect would be incalculable.
Culture, technology, society, and attitudes would all adapt to the new situation. Space travel and birth control alone could deal with he problem. Not to mention the option of living mortal will still be taken by many people.
To quote the best vampire of all time “Very few vampires have the stamina for immortality.”
I think so though I’d be a fool to pretend it wouldn’t be changed. I agree the sense of urgency brought on by inevitable death leads to accomplishment, but at the same time a similar argument could be made about despair in the face of mortality destroying motivation.
Death makes us ask the uncomfortable question, “What’s the point?” I think that a universally mortal population is going to over look some areas of research and creativity because of their mortality, and I think the same is true of a universally immortal society.
The answer would then be obvious, a mix, which is what we would have if you could buy Youth Serum (title of a crappy short short story I wrote, unpublished ) at Walmart.
In short I think new motivations would emerge, motivations that are now clouded. A good example is to look at Maslow’s concept of self actualization. Put simply some people respond better without a deadline.
I personally don’t feel like I have time for a great many things.
And I feel the need to be clear immortality doesn’t mean the inability to die. It just means that death will be open ended. People will still fall off things and poison themselves and blow themselves up and fly into mountains etc. And eventually the universe itself (I assume) will die and all of us along with it.
You’re right about potential stasis. I wrote also before about the difference between a perfectly advanced an enlightened alien and a rock and how would you tell the difference. The answer is you couldn’t. One way of looking at the product of evolution is death by stasis. You obviously have seen that end.
My answer is if so, so be it. I see no value in activity for its own sake. For me an activity is an attempt to solve a problem. If I’m content to sit for all time harming nothing and being harmed by nothing, then I am content. So long as I remain free to act and aware, so long as I retain my standing as an ethical being,so long as my existence has proven a positive influence then what difference does it make?
For all we know this could be seen as retirement. Are we not already accustomed oto he social consequences of those we loved just suddenly ceasing to act for all time?
Functionally speaking what would it matter if grandpa was dead or grandpa was content to sit and not move and not speak ever again until the end of time? I think I would prefer the latter. At least I would know for a fact he’s happy since he’d have the option of getting up and complaining if he wasn’t.
I mean immortality as a choice for anyone who wants it. Basically it would manifest as people stopping aging at any point they choose for example.
I am a Deist, I’ve written extensively about my religion on this blog. http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=324 for example.
There are life forms that life under my rule, from the microbes on my hands to my cat, to artificial life that may come later or even children that I may or may not have. We all, being predators, being human, have authority over other forms of life. I believe that ability confers responsibility.
If my cat starves to death it’s my fault, why? Because I had the ability to prevent it and I did not or I had the ability to assure it and I did.
I take no offense at requests for information. I wouldn’t put my soul on a blog if I wasn’t ready to answer tough and personal questions. The only thing that I ask is you take my answers in proper context and try to limit your assumptions 🙂
I agree of course that earth could not sustain itself in the face of an exponentially growing population of parasites.
But I don’t think it would have to. For one, assuming death was defeated and the option to stay as long as one desired was around, the effect would be incalculable.
Culture, technology, society, and attitudes would all adapt to the new situation. Space travel and birth control alone could deal with he problem. Not to mention the option of living mortal will still be taken by many people.
To quote the best vampire of all time “Very few vampires have the stamina for immortality.”
I think so though I’d be a fool to pretend it wouldn’t be changed. I agree the sense of urgency brought on by inevitable death leads to accomplishment, but at the same time a similar argument could be made about despair in the face of mortality destroying motivation.
Death makes us ask the uncomfortable question, “What’s the point?” I think that a universally mortal population is going to over look some areas of research and creativity because of their mortality, and I think the same is true of a universally immortal society.
The answer would then be obvious, a mix, which is what we would have if you could buy Youth Serum (title of a crappy short short story I wrote, unpublished ) at Walmart.
In short I think new motivations would emerge, motivations that are now clouded. A good example is to look at Maslow’s concept of self actualization. Put simply some people respond better without a deadline.
I personally don’t feel like I have time for a great many things.
And I feel the need to be clear immortality doesn’t mean the inability to die. It just means that death will be open ended. People will still fall off things and poison themselves and blow themselves up and fly into mountains etc. And eventually the universe itself (I assume) will die and all of us along with it.
You’re right about potential stasis. I wrote also before about the difference between a perfectly advanced an enlightened alien and a rock and how would you tell the difference. The answer is you couldn’t. One way of looking at the product of evolution is death by stasis. You obviously have seen that end.
My answer is if so, so be it. I see no value in activity for its own sake. For me an activity is an attempt to solve a problem. If I’m content to sit for all time harming nothing and being harmed by nothing, then I am content. So long as I remain free to act and aware, so long as I retain my standing as an ethical being,so long as my existence has proven a positive influence then what difference does it make?
For all we know this could be seen as retirement. Are we not already accustomed oto he social consequences of those we loved just suddenly ceasing to act for all time?
Functionally speaking what would it matter if grandpa was dead or grandpa was content to sit and not move and not speak ever again until the end of time? I think I would prefer the latter. At least I would know for a fact he’s happy since he’d have the option of getting up and complaining if he wasn’t.
I mean immortality as a choice for anyone who wants it. Basically it would manifest as people stopping aging at any point they choose for example.
I am a Deist, I’ve written extensively about my religion on this blog. http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=324 for example.
There are life forms that life under my rule, from the microbes on my hands to my cat, to artificial life that may come later or even children that I may or may not have. We all, being predators, being human, have authority over other forms of life. I believe that ability confers responsibility.
If my cat starves to death it’s my fault, why? Because I had the ability to prevent it and I did not or I had the ability to assure it and I did.
I take no offense at requests for information. I wouldn’t put my soul on a blog if I wasn’t ready to answer tough and personal questions. The only thing that I ask is you take my answers in proper context and try to limit your assumptions 🙂
Thank for the reply, it clarified things for me to the point of agreeing.
I myself am Deist and became one very early on as the history of religion and the corruption behind it was revealed to me.
For the sake of intellectual stimulation, I’ll keep asking questions, as your answers are very interesting.
The reason I would stay, if such a thing as immortality serum was invented, would be curiosity and to see where mankind would go. But if we reached our creative end and there would be no advancement, what could we do?
“I see no value in activity for its own sake. For me an activity is an attempt to solve a problem.”
Our opinions divide on this, I do things simply because I can, and I pursue knowledge, because I can. There is no problem to be solved, except for my insatiable thirst for more information. Either way, I respect your values.
But would humanity be ready for immortality? We are greedy, selfish, and violent. Obviously there are truly good people, but having this theoretical serum accessible by all would be a recipe for destruction. The other possibility is having someone play God, to evaluate people based on their past actions and motivations to see if they are ‘worthy’ of immortality. Once again, that would be a recipe for destruction. Humans have problems even fairly distributing small things, and having one person (or many people) evaluate everyone willing is unethical in my opinion. Maybe this is a huge assumption, but I assume much, yet am open to be proven wrong.
What would you have in mind about governing immortality? Surely giving universal access to immortality would only heighten the suffering in our world. Greed would come forth, as it does in any society. A true immortal utopia would be near impossible to achieve. Although this may not be what you have in mind.
If your cat died of old age, or an incurable, unpreventable disease, would you still blame yourself?
Sorry for the assumptions but that is how I think, I make assumptions out of curiosity. 🙂
Thank for the reply, it clarified things for me to the point of agreeing.
I myself am Deist and became one very early on as the history of religion and the corruption behind it was revealed to me.
For the sake of intellectual stimulation, I’ll keep asking questions, as your answers are very interesting.
The reason I would stay, if such a thing as immortality serum was invented, would be curiosity and to see where mankind would go. But if we reached our creative end and there would be no advancement, what could we do?
“I see no value in activity for its own sake. For me an activity is an attempt to solve a problem.”
Our opinions divide on this, I do things simply because I can, and I pursue knowledge, because I can. There is no problem to be solved, except for my insatiable thirst for more information. Either way, I respect your values.
But would humanity be ready for immortality? We are greedy, selfish, and violent. Obviously there are truly good people, but having this theoretical serum accessible by all would be a recipe for destruction. The other possibility is having someone play God, to evaluate people based on their past actions and motivations to see if they are ‘worthy’ of immortality. Once again, that would be a recipe for destruction. Humans have problems even fairly distributing small things, and having one person (or many people) evaluate everyone willing is unethical in my opinion. Maybe this is a huge assumption, but I assume much, yet am open to be proven wrong.
What would you have in mind about governing immortality? Surely giving universal access to immortality would only heighten the suffering in our world. Greed would come forth, as it does in any society. A true immortal utopia would be near impossible to achieve. Although this may not be what you have in mind.
If your cat died of old age, or an incurable, unpreventable disease, would you still blame yourself?
Sorry for the assumptions but that is how I think, I make assumptions out of curiosity. 🙂
@m
I was a Christan by default, then an atheist as a result of encounter a theodicy and then a Deist by logical deduction
I’m glad you enjoy my answers, I enjoy answering.
Assuming such a state as an end to creativity and advancement exists, then we would do nothing. Like the immortal rock I believe I mentioned previously.
With all due respect no you don’t. As Carl Sagan noted, even “the simplest thought like the concept of the number one has an elaborate logical underpinning.” What manifests to your consciousness as motivation and feeling comes from far below the level of your awareness. Your motives are very rarely in terms of per action basis driven consciously. And I would say very very rarely by the thought “Well, I can, so I will.”
Have you ever held a kitten? Did you break it’s neck? Did you even want to? I hope you get my point by now.
Of course you pursue knowledge, we do things because they please us, and learning feels nice for you.
We are most certainly not ready. But then again we weren’t ready for fire either. Indeed we still burn people alive with it. That suggests we’re still not ready. But life doesn’t issue licenses. I get your point though, and the question is valid, but there is absolutely no way to predict what more life will really mean in the long term. The ER doctor doesn’t think about the future of his patient, she simply saves him. And I think that’s as it should be.
I don’t think government will last. It was born of the practical needs that resulted from the development of agriculture. And it will die when we no long have need of it. (http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=663)
I wonder what percentage of people today live to their genetic potential maximum age. The extreme end of true immortality may never be reached. The universe itself has a time limit according to our current understanding. My point is that death must be fought in and of itself. Aubrey de Grey’s work is a good place to start to see where I stand on the issue of death. His TED talks are awesome. Plus, just look at that beard. Damn.
The keys there being “incurable”, “unpreventable”. 🙂
@m
I was a Christan by default, then an atheist as a result of encounter a theodicy and then a Deist by logical deduction
I’m glad you enjoy my answers, I enjoy answering.
Assuming such a state as an end to creativity and advancement exists, then we would do nothing. Like the immortal rock I believe I mentioned previously.
With all due respect no you don’t. As Carl Sagan noted, even “the simplest thought like the concept of the number one has an elaborate logical underpinning.” What manifests to your consciousness as motivation and feeling comes from far below the level of your awareness. Your motives are very rarely in terms of per action basis driven consciously. And I would say very very rarely by the thought “Well, I can, so I will.”
Have you ever held a kitten? Did you break it’s neck? Did you even want to? I hope you get my point by now.
Of course you pursue knowledge, we do things because they please us, and learning feels nice for you.
We are most certainly not ready. But then again we weren’t ready for fire either. Indeed we still burn people alive with it. That suggests we’re still not ready. But life doesn’t issue licenses. I get your point though, and the question is valid, but there is absolutely no way to predict what more life will really mean in the long term. The ER doctor doesn’t think about the future of his patient, she simply saves him. And I think that’s as it should be.
I don’t think government will last. It was born of the practical needs that resulted from the development of agriculture. And it will die when we no long have need of it. (http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=663)
I wonder what percentage of people today live to their genetic potential maximum age. The extreme end of true immortality may never be reached. The universe itself has a time limit according to our current understanding. My point is that death must be fought in and of itself. Aubrey de Grey’s work is a good place to start to see where I stand on the issue of death. His TED talks are awesome. Plus, just look at that beard. Damn.
The keys there being “incurable”, “unpreventable”. 🙂